"The Ring" archive entries from Sep 22nd 2007

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    • Re: Coaces Herring and Smith

      w8coach wrote:

      I guess for science sake, someone who would want to be the test subject great. I tihnk the point of the main debate has been lost. It's not which disapline to exclude from the training routine, it's which one is of the most importance during the routine. I am of the belief that the early season the weightroom gets a lot of emphasis but the drills and drill throws are still more impotant to a thrower's development. As the season progresses the technique work becomes even more important but the wieght room still is a large part of the equation. It seems that this type of thinking is treading on the new hallowed ground but mordern technicians may be the evidence for a shift in thinking.
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 1:15am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • Re: Harold F

      w8coach wrote:

      If you had read the post or comprehended it, you would have seen that I noted that Kamy came to UNR a 66 meter discus thrower AS I STATED to those of you with learning disabilities. My point was while he was there at UNR We trained together everyday for two years in which time he improved to 71.98. Joe whom I knew from 1975 until his death from cancer, never once attended a practice. Kamy was at UCLA for one season and had some bad experiences. he never broke 60 meters while at UCLA. Also , as I posted, my most prized efforts have come from the non-recruited athletes I have trained that have made to some national rankings. Obvioulsy you are wearing your emotions on your sleave to make the implications you are making. I haven't seen your resume, I'm sure you're a champion in your own mind. And by the way, eventhough I'm no longer with UNR, I'll send you a postcard from the Hall of Fame Induction Dinner as Kamy has asked me, personally, to be the one who introduces him to the comittee and to the university. You are welcome to attend unles you would rather act in the same gutless fashion tha you have posted. I will truly need to have a gut check that day I need validation from you.
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 2:30am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • age throwing

      Mr.Incredible wrote:

      I dont want ot give away to many secrets out to my fellow masters competitors, but I seem to make my best gains in the shot and the discus when I throw three days a week, Tuesday thurs, and Saturday, and I alternate shot one workout and discus the other. When I train both in the same workout over time, I dont see improvements and I feel over trained. I take 4 to 8 stands, 4 to 8 half turns, and no more than 20 spins. That takes about 45 minutes and I am out of there.

      Gone are the days when I would take 80 to 100 spins a day five days a week. But I do believe that with that base that I had as college thrower, instilled into my muscle memory later in life, and there is no need to throw more than I do.

      Its funny though, My discus is about 40 feet less than college, and my shot is only 3 feet below college. Maybe because I hated the shot in college, I didn't throw it very far.

      Tim Edwards
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 3:46am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • The real reason we coach

      Mr.Incredible wrote:

      Last year was my first year coaching at the college level (Phoenix College) part time. And I know that resumes are important for you full time coaches, but what is the real reason we are out there? It is for the kids and to see them develop. Quite honestly you can take the best throws coach in the nation and put him with an athlete that has no motivation, and you are going to get nothing. I truly believe that as coaches we are there to guide and motivate the athlete down the right path because ultimately it is the athlete that is going to improve or not.

      My resume is zero all americans, but together with my best thrower, he was able to go from 130 feet in the discus to over 170 with four months of practice and he still has bad form that will get better this year. Like W8coach said, I take just as much pleasure in seeing a 100 foot thrower develop into a 150 footer. What fun is it when they come to you and they are already world class?

      I truly believe that the disciplines I received as a college thrower set me up for future things like going into the military and then police work. It taught me to strive for new goals, and that is what my coaching philosphy is all about.

      published at Sep 22nd 2007 4:40am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • Lomsy wrote:

      One thing we can tend to underestimate is that young throwers have had a whole lifetime of activity, games, other sports, running around playing etc to complement and prepare them for their throws and weights training.

      A masters athlete's gym numbers might be as good (mine are better), but the general athleticism has nosedived. It shows how one dimensional a weight room approach is, but its still one dimension you don't want to leave out and there is no need to - I just don't think you need much TIME in the gym to improve your stength, if you are patient, take it slow and therefore stay injury free, and turn up each week!!!

      THere's part of the rub for a masters athlete - there's a lot of other things in our lives now and getting time to consistently show up is not as easy as it was. It is easier if you can accept that a short session, even a REALLY short session is quite OK, even valuable.

      I have a personal saying that a 15min session is better than no session at all. This may sound stupid - what can you achieve in 15 minutes??? - but I have had some great throws by my standards in some of these short sessions. If you don't believe that 15 minutes is a long time, drop down now and give me 15 minutes of push ups non stop right now!!!!

      These short sessions keep the wheels ticking over and give you a session you would have otherwise missed. It stops big gaps happening in your training routine.

      I think the masters athlete who wants to improve has to be more patient than their younger version of themselves. You can't stand the same workload obviously.

      I would still suggest throwing lots of days a week, but that those days need to be easy. If you can't do it slow, you can't do it fast anyway, so why not spend a little bit of time each day, do a few hard throws a few times a week but not heaps, lots of easy ones, don't overtax the body and see what happens.

      I still dream of beating the pb I set in 1991, and I don't think this is an impossible dream (I just don't quite see the way there yet!!!) Might make it, hope so.
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 6:08am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • Mythical Man & Strength

      N2THROS wrote:

      Have loved the conversation on strength v.s. technique. I am a technique guy myself, simply because I don't feel comfortable enough to coach alot of weight training in the younger kids. I do hate the bally hoos' on resumes and coaches. So I offer the old poem:
      The Mythical Man

      Do You know a man . . .
      Who gives you the same rspect he demands?
      Who understands your motivations and goals?
      Who know his own limitations as well as yours?
      Who isn't threatened by expert opinion?
      Whose passion for excellence has no bounds?
      Who know that the man must be developed before the team?
      Who knows the value of perfect practice?
      Who is able to discover what a perfect practice is?
      Who knows the true value of sport in your life?
      If ever you meet such a man, you must, for the sake of becoming all that you can become, call this man COACH. So come on lguys, let's stay with the problems of making our athletes better and be professional enough to disagree and leave it at that. Thanks for all of the great discussion. C.B. Nebraska aka N2THROS Typed not proofed. Thro far and loud.
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 6:42am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • Re: N2THROS

      w8coach wrote:

      Point taken and I'm not excited about my defensive response to Harold F. because there is no winner in these forums. It shlould be about who is right and who is wrong. It is up to us coaches to provide the clarity of thinking that will fascilitate understand for athletes and coaches. When some one takes a pot shot at an thlete and his coach via heresay of the facts they don't qualify as either in my book. It is not my nature to hide behind my resume although I've been asked to post it twice on this site.If Harold F. wants to talk tech differences , fine. Otherwise don't bother with the insults to great athletes that could have been a great boost for American throwing.
      published at Sep 22nd 2007 7:26am on effortlessthrow.org/
    • Plates-Age-resumes-?

      Coach Mac wrote:

      Side plates...get a hold of either Dick Held -on the right OR Ron Johnson ( Jav man posted on the side ) OR Dan West at OnTrackandField.com They all can point you in the right direction.

      Age/Throwing....first sign of aging ? Loss of flexibility.

      First of the trainable muscle fibers to be lost due to a de-trained condition ? Type I -fastest twitch...so YES the plasticity is lost.

      So this tells me that these two factors are trememndously important for an ageing athlete.

      STRENGTH versus technique ?

      Intresting thoughts and opinions. There a number of "roads" to Rome. You can be STRONG ( and slow). You can be weak ( but fast). IF you address all the factors that are important to a thrower ( 5-7 factors) and design a balanced MATRIX ...keep working the two weakest aspects of that matrix...you will have a COMPLETE athlete. Trying too "narrow" it down too just 2-3 factors (just strength) or just technique) is an over-simplification and over a 4 too 9 or 15-year career this emphasis HAS to change.

      COMPETITIVE posting on the RING ? There should still be a number of VERY competitive throwers (ex) throwers and coaches on here. It seems that we get lost in the details at times and it disolves into "my dad is bigger than your dad".

      I really enjoyed the sage advice posted by ( I think our senoir poster ) Chuck B. It's worth repeating:

      The Mythical Man

      Do You know a man . . .
      Who gives you the same rspect he demands?
      Who understands your motivations and goals?
      Who know his own limitations as well as yours?
      Who isn't threatened by expert opinion?
      Whose passion for excellence has no bounds?
      Who know that the man must be developed before the team?
      Who knows the value of perfect practice?
      Who is able to discover what a perfect practice is?
      Who knows the true value of sport in your life?
      If ever you meet such a man, you must, for the sake of becoming all that you can become, call this man COACH !!!

      We ARE 99.8 % the same....it seems that at times we OBSESS on the .02 % differance !!!

      Have a POSITIVE Day !!!
      mac~

      p.s. A sign of the Apocolypse....it's raining in Los Angelas...LOL





      published at Sep 22nd 2007 2:25pm on effortlessthrow.org/